Poll

Which do you enjoy most?

Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2

Author Topic: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal  (Read 7886 times)

Offline crackdude

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Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« on: July 27, 2016, 06:19:56 am »
Ok. This is the real deal.


Over the years opinions have heavily fluctuated over which game is better and even over if they are good at all. "Consensus" on the internet has shifted through "both are 9/10s", "SA2 is the best Sonic ever, SA1 sucks" and "they both suck and Sega is dead", currently sitting comfortably on "SA2 is a disgrace, SA1 is a flawed classic" ever since SomecallmeJohnny shared his personal view on why he believes SA1 to be better (which is perfectly respectable).


It is no secret that these games have aged quite a bit, just like every other game released at that time, but I refuse the "they simply suck and everyone was high in the early 2000s" hypothesis.

We are talking about two solid pieces of videogame software and Sonic/Sega landmarks, which deserve respect. I will post my opinions on them later on, and feel free to do so as well.


That out of the way, which one is, in your humble opinion, the superior game?
SEG4GES

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 08:16:17 am »
Sonic Adv by a mile . It was a game with production values that would put RPG's to shame, the work on the game epic music score alone must have been massive and cost millions and I simply loved the adventure aspect of it, plus it features the best 3D Sonic levels ever made .


Its a classic and still to this day my fav and most loved 3D platform game
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 10:00:05 am »
I can never decide between SA1 and SA2, though some days my mood shifts and when asked I can pick one over the other. There are things I love about SA1 that I was sad to not see carried over to SA2 and there were things in SA2 that I wish were done in SA1.

SA1 had better design. It looked like the obvious next step for the franchise visually, with a bright and colorful aesthetic and while I was not a huge fan of the newly designed characters in the artwork, the in-game models looked great. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles looked great, I loved Eggman's new uniform, though I was sad to see Amy lose the tutu and sneakers. Stages looked cartoony and colorful, enemies were still robotic animals, bosses had very cool designs, E-102 looked like the Eggrobos that I loved from Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

SA1 also had the ability to play through the game as one character at a time, meaning you got to fully experience one character's story and gameplay style. Sure some gameplay styles were not as fun as others, but Amy and Big were not time consuming of difficult and once you completed them they would not appear again. The adventure fields were great fun, I loved just wasting time running about and exploring and sometimes breaking the game.

SA1's story felt like a true expansion on the Genesis originals, with Knuckles' family history and Angel Island playing a critical role. I liked that Chaos was a new enemy, but was tied to an old element of the series. I liked to imagine that he was sitting there inside the Master Emerald whenever I played Sonic & Knuckles.

SA2, meanwhile, had pretty wonky looking character designs. I didn't like how everybody looked a little darker and lanky. I was also thrown by the motion capture they used to animate the characters. It was like the actors over acted their movements, and in turn characters were moving around way too much.

I also thought they moved too far away from the visual designs that made SA1 so great. Things looked more gritty and real. Having said that, the textures were amazing. So sharp and detailed in some parts of the game.

What SA2 has over SA1 is the quality of the Sonic gameplay. Everything felt improved upon, I loved the new moves and the camera wasn't as bad. I was disappointed that we were unable to play as Sonic in the Shadow stages and vice versa in the 1 player campaign, but still the Shadow stages were fun and were essentially more Sonic. Sadly, since they doubled up that meant more shooting stages and more treasure hunting. Sure both were better than the first game, but I felt that there was more emphasis on those gameplay styles and less variety in the game. SA1 had Sonic's speedy platforming, Tails' speedy platforming against the clock, Knuckles' treasure hunting, Big's fishing, Amy's slower platforming and E-102's shooting. But SA2 only had speedy platforming, shooting and treasure hunting.

The Hero and Dark storylines were a novel approach, and were a lot of fun on first playthrough, but lacked the replayability of SA1 I think. I liked going back and replaying as one character in SA1 but rarely returned to replay Hero or Dark because both were much longer and I wasn't always in the mood to play as Knuckles and Tails (or Eggman and Rouge).

I actually really liked the story in SA2. I was less classic leaning than SA1, but exploring Eggman's family was bizarre and kind of cool. I liked how they rolled in the Robotnik name, and the Space Colony ARK was clearly inspired by PSO but with a Sonic twist.

I preferred the overworld map of SA2 when it came to replaying stages, and the Green Hill Zone bonus was very cool (and still is).

SA2 greatly improved on Chao, making it impossible for me to go back and enjoy them in SA1.

---

Today, I'm leaning towards SA1, so I'll go with that. But I'd say that SA1 and 2 are like yin and yang. Can't have one without the other and what one does poorly the other improves upon.

Offline Tad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 11:52:28 am »
I like parts of both, but even as a kid I preferred SA2 over SA1.

SA1 for me had better character models, a decent story with no real plot holes, some good level designs and a good tone that feels right for Sonic. My issues with SA1 however has always made it difficult for me to enjoy. The controls were very precise, but once you gained some speed it becomes very difficult to control; the camera would switch from a 'follow me' to a 'fixed' angle in some situations which would cause control issues too. I also would have preferred less characters in story mode and a more fleshed out adventure instead of just go from A to B in the free roaming sections.

SA2 for me however fixed/refined a lot of the core issues that SA1 had like animations, camera, controls etc and made the story more focused with only 2 separate events leading up to the end. Although lacking the multiple paths etc, Sonic/Shadows acts felt far more flowing and enjoyable for me too.

Where SA2 struggles though, is the story has quite a few issues, the lack of the 'adventure' and the character models.

Also...Adventure is where we see Robotnik changes to the terrible Eggman name.


« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 11:56:10 am by Tad »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 12:56:01 pm »


Also...Adventure is where we see Robotnik changes to the terrible Eggman name.




That was always his name in Japan. SEGA America changed it for politically correct reasons
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 01:16:14 pm »
That was always his name in Japan. SEGA America changed it for politically correct reasons
Doesn't make it any less terrible tho
SEG4GES

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 01:17:03 pm »
When I played SA1 I switched it to Japanese language because I was going through that phase where all dubbing is evil and I was a true fan of Japanese anime and games. -_- But it was here that I heard "Eggman" in the dialogue but saw "Robotnik" in the subtitles and knew something was up.

The Genesis originals were crammed with Eggman mentions, with Robotnik only appearing in manuals and select games where they went out of the way to alter the text – mainly Sonic the Fighters. Sonic Drift 2 retained Eggman, as did other 90s era games.

Looking back, to me Robotnik is the guy we saw in Mean Bean, the comics, AoStH, SatAM and Underground. Eggman was the guy in the games. 

Offline Tad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 01:39:03 pm »
I've always just looked at it as he's both. Eggman just being a silly name Sonic and friends called him.

As the wiki says, Doctor Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:46:07 pm by Tad »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 01:50:30 pm »
I've always just looked at it as he's both. Eggman just being a silly name Sonic and friends called him.

SEGA of Japan created Eggman, SEGA of America wanted Robotnik. Eggman came first, as the character was developed in Japan, and Robotnik came second from SEGA of America as they changed the Sonic backstory for Western audiences. However, while Eggman was something that informed the development team in their creation of the game, SEGA of America's Robotnik – while also created before the game released – was not something that informed the Japanese developers.

Interestingly, SEGA of America were seemingly crafting the Robotnik backstory featuring the Kintobor name AFTER Sonic the Hedgehog had released. Drafts of the Sonic Bible were still being routed internally for edits as late as June 26th 1991: http://nemesis.hacking-cult.org/MegaDrive/Documentation/Sonic/SonicBibleDraft2.pdf

So when Sonic the Hedgehog released in Japan, it was Eggman, and when the game released in the US was Robotnik – however, SEGA of America was not ready to reveal their backstory until later that year. All they had finalized was the Robotnik name.

Offline Tad

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 02:51:48 pm »
Huh, interesting stuff. Never know about the backstory being made by SoA. As much respect I have for the Japanese devs behind the game, I think SoA called it right. Despite some who say 'it's better in the original' when something is made in Japan or so on, I do think things are changed for a good reason more often then not when arriving to the rest of the world.

Offline Randroid

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 06:01:34 pm »
He'll always be Dr Ivo Robotnik to me. He just changed it to Eggman so that no one would notice that he's the guy in charge of the brand now.

Online Berto

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 08:30:12 pm »
I've always just looked at it as he's both. Eggman just being a silly name Sonic and friends called him.

As the wiki says, Doctor Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik.

He named it himself. If "Eggman" is just being a silly name Sonic and friends called him, he wouldn't name his final stage on Sonic 2 as "Death Egg", he would name it "Death Robo" or something like that.




And also the silly name Sonic called him is "Egghead" (at least in the comic and Boom TV series).



 

Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 04:10:35 am »
I always assumed he took a liking to the nickname Sonic gave him..

On topic tho:

Context
SA1 was huge for me. I know there was this huge gap between Sonic3k and Sonic Adventure, but I really didn't felt it as a kid. I got my MegaDrive circa 97, and although I had played Sonic since I was 2yo (94), I only got to play Sonic 2 and 3 by that time.
In 99 the hype was fucking real. Dreamcast and Sonic was everywhere, Portugal being a completely Sega-subdued territory at the time. I got a letter in the mail (this was huge for a kid) as if it was written by Sonic himself saying that I needed to check out his new console. How could I resist.

When I played SA for the first time I "got it" immediately. I went from Sonic 3k to Adventure as if they were released right next to each other, and it felt as if this was always how Sonic was meant to be. And this shock/liberation of Sonic as a character was meaningful.

The game still retained some of that Nights dreamy vibe (a particular aspect of late 90s Sonic Team games). It's in the sound design, it's in the level design.. and you felt that was a special game.

The gameplay was tight, fast and visceral enough to leave 8 year old me completely stunned. Looking back, I think the game had a good balanced story. As a kid I felt it was deep, now I feel it was lighthearted enough.

Playing with anyone other than Sonic and Tails was a chore. And the game is rather light on the level count. But as a whole it was excellent.

However, SA2 broke the mold.
It was the absolute combination of everything that was right in the world by 2001. One final pure experience before videogames felt the need to become serious.
The gameplay was, somehow, even better than before. Stringing homing attacks into a perfect combo is still one of the most satisfying small experiences you can have in gaming. Timing everything just right to get that simply perfect run at your favorite level is exciting, and something some fans take it as a craft.

But gameplay was not all. The anime inspired story felt right at home. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't take itself seriously at all! It's anime tropes for 13 year olds, and it feels right because it gives the characters enough space to develop strong personality traits without indulging into pretentious storytelling. Sonic Team was on point, although some plot points could be better developed, as the game is rich in plot wholes.

But the ambiance was incredible. The visuals and visual style was completely consistent throughout. And the music was just.....amazing.
I don't say this because the tracks in particular were good on their own (except for Live and Learn, City Escape and...Pumpkin Hill, ofc) but because they completely liberated the characters.
For example, you know Rouge uses sex as a weapon, solely because of her music being representative of her personality. And using music as an extension of the characters personalities as well as an expansion of the current stage ambiance is no small feat. Everyone from Crush40 to Hunnid P brought their A game.

Add to this the internet support for DLC costumes, Black Chao Market, the Chao BBS, leaderboards.. And much more levels than ever before (although I didn't particularly enjoyed the mech stages).

I feel SA2 showed us where gaming could go for fun.
It's just sad that it went another way.

SA was amazing on it's own, but SA2 will forever leave me wanting more of it. So my preference can't go any other way. Sonic Adventure 2.
SEG4GES

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 05:19:42 am »
Doesn't make it any less terrible tho

I don't think its terrible and it what I've always knew his to be from the very 1st reports of Sonic in the game mag's . It just seemed silly to change the name for fear of upsetting fat  people . Thomas the tank engine had issues with this PC nonese over the use of the 'Fat controller'
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic Adventure 1 v 2 - the real deal
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 05:41:41 am »
It just seemed silly to change the name for fear of upsetting fat  people . Thomas the tank engine had issues with this PC nonese over the use of the 'Fat controller'
The reason was to not upset fat people? wat
I just think that Eggman sounds silly, while Ivo Robotnik not only sounds badass but is also true to the character. Robotnik because he makes robots, Ivo because he looks like an egg.
SEG4GES