Author Topic: The Sega Family  (Read 2900 times)

Offline ROJM

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The Sega Family
« on: December 13, 2012, 12:30:10 pm »
In another topic, BTN posted a pic ofa promo peice for SASASR:T



It made me wonder if Sega truly has a better line up of characters to do these type of "All star" games compared to someone like Nintendo or Capcom.
In Nintendo's case, are all their franchises household names or is it just Mario,Zelda and Pokemon? Granted that Nintendo has always been conservative in how they exploit their IPs but when they do and manage to get them to be a success how many of them outside the big three would anyone know of the top of their head?
In Sega's case,the only time they were truly succesful in creating games that were household names was in the nineties and that was thanks to Sega promoting these characters really well.
Back then everybody had heard of not just Sonic but Ecco and Toejam and Earl as well. Nowadays Sega's seem to have lost the ability to promote a game, let alone a good game. But do they promote the right characters? For instance, is a character like Billy Hatcher a true Sega Superstar over a character like Vector Man or even one of the characters from Burning Rangers? I mean really which of those characters have more of a good steed with Sega supporters? More importantly which of the three games have many Sega supporters actually played. I can only guess but it wouldn't be BH since(unless i am presuming too much) most of us had a megadrive/genesis and a saturn where buying Sega games were more easier instead of having to choose between three non sega systems in order to figure out which one of them was going to get Sega's full support.
Should a character in these type of games should only be chosen by their status and stock within Sega fandom? And would people object to having second party Sega characters like Dynamite Headdy(treasure) and Bayonetta or jack(Platinum) feature in these type of titles and leave out the western made Sega characters altogether?
Its cool that Sega is making an attempt to pool various franchises in particular and various cameos ,be it the YAKUZA characters appearing in BINARY DOMAIN or various Sega RPG characters being playable in PHANTASY STAR PORTABLE or the recent ALLSTAR card pack for SAMURAI AND DRAGONS. But should Sega really go further to promote themselves better and their history by at least giving you a fuller picture of their history and rather than a bit of it like previous titles of this ilk has done so many times. Its seems especially now after the absence of a singular Sega system that these all star games is the best way to promote Sega and their efforts past and present. The question is are they going the right way about it?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:43:42 pm by ROJM »

Online Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 01:06:17 pm »
Just to add another pic, here is an ASRT roster image that I had been putting together:



I think the Heritage and Vintage collections could go a long way in educating gamers on SEGA's past games. They need to expand it, though, with more Saturn titles and give us more Vintage Collections featuring games that have yet to make compilations.

Offline semmie

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 03:34:32 pm »
Just to add another pic, here is an ASRT roster image that I had been putting together:



I think the Heritage and Vintage collections could go a long way in educating gamers on SEGA's past games. They need to expand it, though, with more Saturn titles and give us more Vintage Collections featuring games that have yet to make compilations.

they should include hot blaze of streets of rage
right or wrong?

Offline Kori-Maru

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 11:42:55 pm »
I'll just leave this here. From the Sega All-Stars Pack for Samurai & Dragons in Japan.

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Offline ROJM

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 06:19:48 am »
they should include hot blaze of streets of rage
right or wrong?

But that's what im getting at, Sega not only have failed in ultilising their legacy but keep failing due to bad luck relaunch key franchises.

Offline Nameless 24

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 08:37:34 am »
Nintendo seems to have a better line up in Smash Brothers then SEGA has with any All-Star Game.

It kind of works since they have many franchises they seldom use or have forgotten about for years.

When Kid Icarus and Lucas were added to the roster the Nintendo fans went crazy with joy!

Although we can say the same thing for Vyse/Joe/Gilius and AGES, the results seemed to have been diluted because the selection was pretty poor.

ASR has better variety but again I don't think some of the selection were praised as much as I expected...I loved the Bonanza Bros but hardly anyone has played the game (those that did weren't exactly fond of the inclusion).

I think if SEGA were to exploit the franchises better in the future, then the collections would definitely be the right way to do it!
Big fan of Claymore, Miria in particular.

Offline semmie

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 03:00:18 pm »
Nintendo seems to have a better line up in Smash Brothers then SEGA has with any All-Star Game.

It kind of works since they have many franchises they seldom use or have forgotten about for years.

When Kid Icarus and Lucas were added to the roster the Nintendo fans went crazy with joy!

Although we can say the same thing for Vyse/Joe/Gilius and AGES, the results seemed to have been diluted because the selection was pretty poor.

ASR has better variety but again I don't think some of the selection were praised as much as I expected...I loved the Bonanza Bros but hardly anyone has played the game (those that did weren't exactly fond of the inclusion).

I think if SEGA were to exploit the franchises better in the future, then the collections would definitely be the right way to do it!

they were nerds thats why they were happy with their nerd family
come of of it bro sega was so much better and so was the crew.
we have shinobi aight. they have what?
we got sonic. and sonic in those days was a fast blue rocking hedgehog. mario is a fat ass mofo
we have axel blaze adam max. they have shit
all they got is this mario nerd
i only give props for metroid .

i dont mean to be f up. but seriously the family of nintendo are basically gay.
dont be surprised when u find out that 99 prcent of the nintendo community are either gay or bsexual.
with the sega family we have serious characters. even monkeyball.

just look at it yo

Gaysection;
mario
zelda
kid icarus
they gayness at top yo

ok straight is the metroid series

ok now go on sega
answer that. u will not be able i tell ya

sonic. fast thug
yakuza. killing spree for real
golden axe. slash the mofos
sor123  kill them thugs
immortal: not known t many of ya. probably a 21 year or older game
monkeyball. game for stoneys who wanna chill at home


nintengay should be the real name.
success or no success with the family u gotta stick with the family that is normal.
and nintendo yeah it had its past with nintendo the gay master. and the mario bros stuff

ok yeah srry for the emotional addon to this topic but in my opinion in the past and present and future sega will always be the winner when about the family.

thats wassup

Online Barry the Nomad

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 03:03:56 pm »
semmie, I'm giving you a warning on your account for the use of "gay" as an insult. It's offensive and not allowed on the forums. If you hate Nintendo, just say you hate it. Don't bring homophobic high school jargon into the conversation.

Offline Kori-Maru

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 03:32:46 pm »
I agree with Barry, it's fine that you don't like Nintendo. Some of us feel the same way but please try to tone down certain terms on this forums.

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Offline ungibbed

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 05:48:26 am »
I never understood the point of simply choosing a side and sticking with it, sure this is a Sega fansite but what is the reason for blind hate of Nintendo or even the TurboGrafx back in the day?

Console "mascots" essentially died with the end of the 16 bit console wars. The world was crushed by the original PlayStation and if you had to associate a mascot for the console, there really isn't one since the system survived mainly by third parties.

Back on point, I grew up with both my NES and the Master System. Nintendo had pure marketing genius with the launch of the old 8 bit NES. Originally, Nintendo had approached Atari to market the system and it was the stupidest decision in Atari history (other than E.T.) and with Nintendo going it's own and bringing us a home port of the arcade vs. Super Mario Bros., the rest was history.

Sega struggled and originally it was Alex Kidd as the Sega home market mascot. It wasn't till much later that the Alex Kidd franchise was completely forgotten and reintroduced itself with Sonic with the Genesis already two years on the market.

NEC had stuck with Bonk as a console mascot as the game was great with a style all it's own. Nintendo had stuck with Mario as the character was a marketing sensation and included with nearly every NES console ever sold.

To me, Sega aside from Sonic, started developing a identity crisis as there was no new Sonic game for the Saturn other than Sonic Jam which brought back the Genesis titles. Running around in the 3D area of the games various "areas" was the first and the poorly accepted Sonic R were the only memories of Sonic at all during that era unless you owned a Game Gear.

Various types of games were pushed along to give the Saturn some recognition from Bug!, Clockwork Knight (both of which had sequels on the same system and forgotten about just as quickly). Panzer Dragoon did have a captive audience thankfully and the much lesser known Astal.

It wasn't until the release of the Dreamcast that Sega went character crazy! Expanding on the Sonic universe and bringing back games that simply just couldn't be finished on the Saturn (Shenmue started as a Saturn game) and many other games that the Dreamcast simply did so well at bringing to life. The return of Ecco, beautiful arcade ports including the poorly executed Sega Rally 2 (Win CE... Ugh) and the amazing release of many other great titles.

Still, I feel that the Saturn really didn't have such a marketing approach to mascots and various characters as much as the Master System and Genesis before it and the ill fated Dreamcast.

Sega, like Nintendo does have a lot of characters from past games. Many more memorable than others but still. If you consider yourself a gamer, there's no room to hate and defend your purchase with your life.

*steps off soapbox...*

One huge request if current Sega producers ever see this....

F-Zero + Wii U = Insanely grateful gamers who still play GX on the Gamecube or Wii... That would be one major fuckin yeah I'm going to buy now moments.
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline semmie

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 07:56:34 am »
I never understood the point of simply choosing a side and sticking with it, sure this is a Sega fansite but what is the reason for blind hate of Nintendo or even the TurboGrafx back in the day?

Console "mascots" essentially died with the end of the 16 bit console wars. The world was crushed by the original PlayStation and if you had to associate a mascot for the console, there really isn't one since the system survived mainly by third parties.

Back on point, I grew up with both my NES and the Master System. Nintendo had pure marketing genius with the launch of the old 8 bit NES. Originally, Nintendo had approached Atari to market the system and it was the stupidest decision in Atari history (other than E.T.) and with Nintendo going it's own and bringing us a home port of the arcade vs. Super Mario Bros., the rest was history.

Sega struggled and originally it was Alex Kidd as the Sega home market mascot. It wasn't till much later that the Alex Kidd franchise was completely forgotten and reintroduced itself with Sonic with the Genesis already two years on the market.

NEC had stuck with Bonk as a console mascot as the game was great with a style all it's own. Nintendo had stuck with Mario as the character was a marketing sensation and included with nearly every NES console ever sold.

To me, Sega aside from Sonic, started developing a identity crisis as there was no new Sonic game for the Saturn other than Sonic Jam which brought back the Genesis titles. Running around in the 3D area of the games various "areas" was the first and the poorly accepted Sonic R were the only memories of Sonic at all during that era unless you owned a Game Gear.

Various types of games were pushed along to give the Saturn some recognition from Bug!, Clockwork Knight (both of which had sequels on the same system and forgotten about just as quickly). Panzer Dragoon did have a captive audience thankfully and the much lesser known Astal.

It wasn't until the release of the Dreamcast that Sega went character crazy! Expanding on the Sonic universe and bringing back games that simply just couldn't be finished on the Saturn (Shenmue started as a Saturn game) and many other games that the Dreamcast simply did so well at bringing to life. The return of Ecco, beautiful arcade ports including the poorly executed Sega Rally 2 (Win CE... Ugh) and the amazing release of many other great titles.

Still, I feel that the Saturn really didn't have such a marketing approach to mascots and various characters as much as the Master System and Genesis before it and the ill fated Dreamcast.

Sega, like Nintendo does have a lot of characters from past games. Many more memorable than others but still. If you consider yourself a gamer, there's no room to hate and defend your purchase with your life.

*steps off soapbox...*

One huge request if current Sega producers ever see this....

F-Zero + Wii U = Insanely grateful gamers who still play GX on the Gamecube or Wii... That would be one major fuckin yeah I'm going to buy now moments.

there was a sonic on saturn

like sonic R
and sonic 3d
ok yeah its also on pc. but still.....

dont know if u can count that. but certainly that is sonic

yo ungibbed what about sonic extreme. do u have any knowledge as an ex sega developer? was it really that terrible?
i would kill someone to get this copy. certainly i would like it. just like i like sonic blast homebrew.

Offline ungibbed

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 11:39:48 am »
there was a sonic on saturn

like sonic R
and sonic 3d
ok yeah its also on pc. but still.....

dont know if u can count that. but certainly that is sonic

yo ungibbed what about sonic extreme. do u have any knowledge as an ex sega developer? was it really that terrible?
i would kill someone to get this copy. certainly i would like it. just like i like sonic blast homebrew.

What really killed it is the fact that the Saturn really was not very fast with 3D outside of the skilled hands of AM2 (which they did have a bit of a struggle before we got the stunning Virtua Fighter 2).

Sonic R on the Saturn had an odd issue with lighting as most people know. As you raced forward you would see the plain level geometry appear and a half second later, the lighting pop in over the level structures and various obstacles. It was really poorly executed IMO as I've come across third party titles that had colored lighting and textures at a far better quality.

The largest problem with Sonic R really was plain poor execution despite the racing nature of the game, it just didn't "feel" fast like a true Sonic title should. Also in some areas where you needed to dodge something you had no camera control to see where you were going then you're at a dead stop and feeling like Sonic is on a Pride mobility scooter slowly taking off again.

It was very frustrating and that's from a consumer standpoint. I did get a lot of freebies sent to me over the years and after the Saturn was pretty much done, my house was burglarized. Over 100 games (some of which I kept in the shrink wrap for collectibility), my Genesis/SegaCD/32X library as well including my consoles. My Genny setup and three Saturn consoles (among many other things) were all lost.

My homeowners insurance cut me a check for my losses, the collection I once had though would never be able to rebuild as many of the SegaCD games I had were never released.

I got a check for 27 grand for my losses and repairs needed to the glass slider leading to my back yard. Nothing ever came up despite pictures I had given to the police and my insurance company. The highest value item to them was my stereo equipment and speakers and my old boobtube. The games they couldn't place a actual dollar amount on as they simply had no idea of the value.

If I still had my Sega library, jaws would drop. Not only games, but hardware and peripherals. Two arcade racer wheels, five menacers (one was broken) dozens of controllers including arcade sticks, original US gamepads and tons of others.

Even my Neo Geo AES console was taken...

Those fuckers...

I have had ADT security ever since but moved years ago. They were hitting my neighbors homes too while we were all at work.

As you might see, I'm still sour over it.
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline semmie

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 01:54:44 pm »
What really killed it is the fact that the Saturn really was not very fast with 3D outside of the skilled hands of AM2 (which they did have a bit of a struggle before we got the stunning Virtua Fighter 2).

Sonic R on the Saturn had an odd issue with lighting as most people know. As you raced forward you would see the plain level geometry appear and a half second later, the lighting pop in over the level structures and various obstacles. It was really poorly executed IMO as I've come across third party titles that had colored lighting and textures at a far better quality.

The largest problem with Sonic R really was plain poor execution despite the racing nature of the game, it just didn't "feel" fast like a true Sonic title should. Also in some areas where you needed to dodge something you had no camera control to see where you were going then you're at a dead stop and feeling like Sonic is on a Pride mobility scooter slowly taking off again.

It was very frustrating and that's from a consumer standpoint. I did get a lot of freebies sent to me over the years and after the Saturn was pretty much done, my house was burglarized. Over 100 games (some of which I kept in the shrink wrap for collectibility), my Genesis/SegaCD/32X library as well including my consoles. My Genny setup and three Saturn consoles (among many other things) were all lost.

My homeowners insurance cut me a check for my losses, the collection I once had though would never be able to rebuild as many of the SegaCD games I had were never released.

I got a check for 27 grand for my losses and repairs needed to the glass slider leading to my back yard. Nothing ever came up despite pictures I had given to the police and my insurance company. The highest value item to them was my stereo equipment and speakers and my old boobtube. The games they couldn't place a actual dollar amount on as they simply had no idea of the value.

If I still had my Sega library, jaws would drop. Not only games, but hardware and peripherals. Two arcade racer wheels, five menacers (one was broken) dozens of controllers including arcade sticks, original US gamepads and tons of others.

Even my Neo Geo AES console was taken...

Those fuckers...

I have had ADT security ever since but moved years ago. They were hitting my neighbors homes too while we were all at work.

As you might see, I'm still sour over it.

ofcourse you are. that is not something that sounds like a joke.

back to sonic R. i loved it tho. and i still do. but on pc the framerate is really better. that is how far my knowledge goes. so yes the fastness wasnt really that fast. but an average ok is well deserved.

to move it up a little bit. you said something about the 3d adaption of the saturn that it was hard to do so.
but if that is truth what you say. and excuse me i am not trying to refute you. but i have to say this to give my point of view.
look at panzerdragoon saga. and look at games like prototype shenmue. how come this games were so beautifull?

surely lets just imagine sega didnt discontinue and was a success. then havin panzer saga 2 would have been the most beautiful game in 32bit history.
not t forget i love to compare. and i played resident evil one on psx and saturn. and for real yo the resident evil 1 of the saturn is so so much better.

sorry if this seems off topic. but ungibbed i have a problem with tha t what yu saying. that 3d story you just gave me.

is there a part im missing in your point?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 01:56:58 pm by semmie »

Offline Centrale

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 02:20:35 pm »
I think the thing about the Saturn was that it wasn't impossible to make great 3D games for it, but it had more of a challenging learning curve than the Playstation.  It was more difficult due to the complex two-processor architecture.  Programmers who really worked at it could do amazing work.  But ultimately the Playstation was easier to program and had a more helpful development kit.  That's my understanding of it anyhow.

Offline ungibbed

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Re: The Sega Family
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 02:23:36 pm »
The Saturn was a very complex console and somewhat of a mess internally. It was much later in the  Sega's Saturn's life that the two games you mentioned came to be (only one saw actual release).

The other thing is both of these IIRC are second party titles that have a lot more time and budget just as a an exclusive game would. That in mind, the target console is easier to focus and work in Assembly vs C+ libraries or a combination of both.

When you compare a multiplatform title or franchise, games tended to look better on the PlayStation due to a few major factors.

One, the Saturn calculated in quads instead of more common triangles for 3D objects.

Secondly, lighting was not done well on the Saturn often resorting to pixel mesh patterns in place of true transparency on most games.

Finally, developers had to struggle early on due to the dual processor design that didn't have a hardware scheduler. So third parties really didn't get to the full potential of the Saturn due to poor code libraries from Sega's DTS and costs were quite high for development hardware.
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...